Probably so, sorry! I’m only 20, myself. I’m not actually sure how old Nate is- I’m guessing between 25-30?

C’mon Ben! Save me! tell them you are older than 41…

Hey! Am I the oldest person here? Oh please don’t tell me I have assumed the position of “Codger”…

Probably so, sorry! I’m only 20, myself. I’m not actually sure how old Nate is- I’m guessing between 25-30?

I’m certainly that- I think Matthew is the only regular poster here who’s close to my age.

Hey! Am I the oldest person here? Oh please don’t tell me I have assumed the position of “Codger”…

So to answer your question, I’m not sure why you haven’t been given the evidence you need. Maybe this is a cop out, but you’re a young guy, and have a lot more life to live.

I’m certainly that- I think Matthew is the only regular poster here who’s close to my age.

Anyway, maybe someday I’ll hear the call. I personally doubt it, but of course it’s possible. Until then, I guess I’m just your friendly neighborhood atheist

And if doing so is the only way to avoid Hell, so be it. I’ll burn.

I would throw the TBN/700 Club/EWTN/Sky Angel/Daystar cliche of “I Will Pray For You Brother…” at you, but seeing as I a resident of the “House Of Calvin”, my “prayers” would not change the election of a person. Ergo all I can say is that…

At least we can discuss and debate until the time comes for you to “burn” though George… {Unless I go first, then I will put in a good word for ya whether ya like it or not! hahaha}

Besides… I need “unsaved” friends to keep me in check in case I get a little too pious.

Yes. but he has to “want to” first!

Lets say you get married, and then your wife has a baby. Does that make you a “Father”?

No.

You do not become a father, until you “want” to be one. you must “desire” to be a “Parent” you do not become one simply by virtue of the birth of the child.

I think we now approach the crux of the matter. I don’t have any particular desire to believe. I don’t have any particular aversion to it, but I don’t have any desire for it either.

What I do have a desire for is knowledge. If God is real, then I definitely want to know that. But the difference between me and you, I think, is that I don’t desire to know that God is real; I desire to know whether or not he is real. I’m sure you all grasp the distinction.

So if that prevents me from ever knowing God, I can live with that. Maybe I’m going to Hell. But it seems to me that in order to get to know God, if you are correct anyway, I’ve got to surrender an aspect of myself that forms a key part of my identity- namely, my unwillingness to accept anything without question. In the absence of God as an objective moral rubric, I have only my identity with which to judge the relative merits of the courses laid before me. It’s rather a paradox for me: in order to get to know God, in order to hear him speak to me and show me that he’s real, I must already believe in him; but in order to believe in him in the absence of any compelling reason to do so I must abandon a core part of my self. And if doing so is the only way to avoid Hell, so be it. I’ll burn.

Is that an “Arminian” tone I detect in your comment. hahahaha!

Tone? What tone?

It’s why it’s so important to look at what the whole Bible says about a particular topic instead of just quoting a few isolated scriptures to make a point.

Is that an “Arminian” tone I detect in your comment. hahahaha!