If it wasn’t inspired, then the fact that it says it’s inspired wouldn’t mean much would it?

Is the entire idea of “inspiration” mere circular logic? Think about it.

Does it bother you that when Paul wrote that all scripture is inspired, our entire Bible had not yet been penned?

Does it bother you that the criteria for canonization were entirely extra-biblical?

Rebuttals?

[links of interest: 1 2]

A couple of days ago, I was reading the local paper.  One of my favorite sections is the Letters to the Editor section, and I make sure I read that every single morning.  This particular morning, I read a very interesting story that, as you can imagine, I didn’t think could go without a response.

So, I figured out how to send a letter to the editor, and promptly began writing.  This is what I wrote.

Is it weird that I’m kinda excited that they decided to publish my very first attempt to write a letter to the editor?  I’m totally clipping this and sticking it to my refrigerator.

Are there things in this world that are, in and of themselves, neutral?  They aren’t “godly”, but they aren’t “sinful” either.  The color blue.  Refrigerators.  Street signs.  Wal-Mart.

When Moses was walking up to the burning bush, was there anything inherently special or “holy” about the dirt he was walking on?  Did God create a patch of “special dirt” that no one had yet noticed?  I doubt it very much!

But there’s something about ordinary things, coupled with the presence of God, that makes them holy.

Take you and me for example … left to our own we are nothing.  We sin, and that makes us unholy.  But God, through Jesus, redeems us.  He makes us holy by nothing other than himself!  His presence in us changes us from ordinary sinful individuals into people worthy of being in his presence for eternity.

Also, take music for another example.  There’s nothing inherently evil about any particular style of music.  But couple any type of music with lyrics that insult a holy God, and they ruin the song.  But take that same music and let God have a place in it, and HE makes it holy … just like he did with the ordinary, everyday dirt around the bush.

I think sometimes we forget that it’s not about whether or not we are personally comfortable with a particular style of music, or word, or activity, or clothing.  What matters is whether or not God is present. 

Here are some excerpts … (quoting from touchet1611.org, my thoughts in bold)

• The old Cambridge text is all we will look for in our purchases- all other KJB’s are being tinkered with more and more. We can’t even trust ‘church publishers’ wtihout (sic) our scrutiny of their possible changes – along with tracts and booklets and books – no one can be trusted anymore. (they really are 1611!)
• We will not willingly listen, seek out or encourage any greek (sic) in our studies or sermons – or in or from the pulpit – NONE!
• No Hebrew is necessary, either!
• The King James 1611 Bible is essential for one’s salvation. (what in the world did we do before 1611?)
• The King James 1611 Bible is the only inspired, inerrant, preserved word of God and IS the very words of God.
• Fellowship with Jesus Christ is from proper prayer and reading and / or hearing of the King James Bible! (yep, can’t fellowship with God unless you’re sporting a KJV1611)
• It will be the lack of hearing the King James Bible that will be the base of the famine in Amos 8:11-13 (man, I’m glad you cleared that one up for me)
• When we read the phrase, “word of God,” word of Jesus Christ, etc. those are referring to the King James 1611 Bible today (it’s all so very clear now!)
• Any reference to the word “Scriptures’ is a reference to the King James 1611 Bible today (seriously, I’m starting to think this site is a joke)
• The King James 1611 Bible is higher than any physical or mental experience that one sees or feels (in other words, not even God Himself could convince this guy that the KJV1611 wasn’t the ONLY Bible that’s ok to use).
• John 1:1 is referring to the King James 1611 Bible today as well as Jesus Christ. (in the beginning was the KJV?)

Also, I saw this little nugget …

We believe the KJB is the inspired and preserved word and words of God – it makes no sense to us to lean backward into the past nor is there anything ‘new’ coming other than Christ Himself.

They would have crucified the writers of the KJV had they been around in 1611 for being “new”. Oh, and this just made me laugh …

I won’t even take up my time with anyone arguing with them about the originals, etc.

Translation: I am so stubborn and unreasonable that not only will you never convince me I’m wrong, I won’t even let you attempt to do so. Take that, earthling!

Then, it all started to make sense …

I have in my past the following ‘big name preachers:‘ Dr. Peter S Ruckman; Dr. Jack Hyles; Dr. James Modlish; Dr. Samuel Gipp; Richard Jordan; Dr. Rick Sowell – along with a long long list of ’smaller’ names. Those men have been instrumental in my growth as a Christian as well as a pastor – in more ways than they or anyone else knows.

No, Mr. Preacher, we understand all too well. These, umm, “doctors” on your list make it crystal clear how you got where you are.

As far as I can tell, this site is not a joke or a parody. It’s the real deal. And to be honest, it’s not surprising at all. In fact, it is the logical progression of any form of KJV favoritism. The entire debate is rooted in extra-biblical “proofs”. And if you press even the KJVO people on their position, they either have to admit that the KJV possibly has errors, or they have to do what Mr. Preacher did here … assume the position that the KJV is itself inspired.

Press them a little harder, and they dig their heels in even further, to the point where they end up like our friend here. In my opinion, any “moderate” KJVO guy just hasn’t been pressed hard enough. Upon proper scrutiny, either he will abandon his ridiculous opinion, or he will insist on the inerrancy of the KJV by making up a miracle in the form of KJV inspiration.

Our friend here is severely misguided, that’s for sure. Maybe one day he’ll open his eyes, but if history is any indication, there is very little chance of that ever happening.

For instance, if a parent finds some Christian rock music in a teenager’s room, blows up in anger and breaks the CD, then the teen starts crying, is the teen’s reaction evidence of:

a. Satan’s use of music to seduce a teenage heart or
b. Fear of the teen’s parent reacting like a maniac

It would be funny if it weren’t so true, but many times we blame things on the devil … and he’s sitting in the corner shrugging his shoulders saying “uhh, that actually wasn’t me.”

Be careful what you attribute to evil. I’m not saying Satan isn’t influential, but come one … let’s not go overboard. Sometimes, there is a better, more reasonable explanation for something.

One day, a guy from Bill’s town decided he’d start a church. But not a typical church. Nope, he wanted to start one of those “contemporary” churches. You know the kind … “purpose driven”, and “seeker sensitive”. They played rock music and everybody wore jeans to church. Organs and pianos were replaced by drums and guitars. There were these two giant projection screens on the walls with video and lyrics to the songs. Instead of reading the scripture in your Bible, you read it on the screen.

There was a person at Bill’s work that went to this new church. Bill obviously thinks it’s a cult and wants nothing to do with it. Thank goodness! Bill was already a member of a church. He liked his church too! He knew everybody there, and they knew him.

But this girl kept bugging him to come to church with her. Obviously, she had already swallowed the garbage they talk about at her church. But Bill was smarter than that. He knew that she was just a pawn in the new pastor’s “numbers game”, so he continually refused, always letting her know how sinful her church was. God isn’t pleased with rock music, He isn’t pleased with jeans, and He isn’t pleased with video screens.

But after months and months of trying to convince Bill to come, Bill started to have some trouble with teenage daughter. She was out of control and Bill began to wonder what in the world he was supposed to do about this. As a last resort, the girl from Bill’s work mentioned to him that her church was about to start a series on parenting.

This got Bill’s attention.

After talking it over with his wife, they decided that as long as they treated it like a “parenting conference” instead of church, it would be ok to go … just for this week though! After all, Bill wasn’t about to fall for their ridiculous excuse for a church.

So Bill and his family show up at the church. His kids go off to the children’s ministry and they go into the auditorium. Bill makes it clear that he’s glad they don’t call it a “sanctuary”, because it just wouldn’t fit.

The service starts and Bill finds himself laughing at the opening video for the series. Next thing you know, he’s got his notes out writing frantically. He’s shocked at the use of scripture in the service. It’s almost as if he actually enjoyed and learned from the sermon.

After the service, Bill picks up his kids and asks them how things went. Again, he’s shocked at how much they enjoyed church. Even more, he’s shocked that to hear from his children that they didn’t just run around and play games … they were actually taught an understandable lesson from the Bible.

As you can imagine, sadly, Bill swallowed the bait. He was now part of the mega-church he once stood against.

Now, Bill volunteers every Sunday with the children’s ministry that reached his younger children.

He leads a small group out of his home, where every week they study the Bible together, and give support to each other through their relationships.

He now invites people to church every week, and continues to propagate the mega-church cult message.

His marriage is strong, he spends time with Jesus every day, he gives faithfully to his church, and he openly professes his love for Jesus and his commitment to his church.

His teenagers love the youth ministry, and have even started inviting their friends lately.

Bless his heart. Poor Bill lost sight of true Christianity. He’s just another number in the herd of zombies in the mega-church cult.

OK, this was a satire …

but all too often this is the reaction of many when talking about churches that do things differently than their church. Because the church doesn’t preach expository sermons, or sing hymns, or “go deep”, they end up being criticized from all corners of the country. Stories of life change don’t phase them. Stories of salvation are met with discouragement and doubt rather than excitement and rejoicing.

There are probably hundreds of “Bills” in the churches that get criticized the most. But that doesn’t stop the criticism. When the sermons are not harsh enough, they get criticized. When they (gasp!) preach on the tough topics, they criticize the delivery methods. If secular music is played in the service, out come the dogs. But if they lose the secular music, even the Christian music isn’t “Christian” enough for them.

Yep … poor Bill. He’s a Christian, a better father, a strong leader, and a faithful servant of God. But because it happened at that church, it just doesn’t matter to them.

Sad … but unfortunately true.

One of the things that was mentioned in the conversation was the need for balance between prayer and study.  Here’s the long and short of it.

There are far too many Christians, myself included, who take a one sided approach to the relationship you have with God … and I do mean relationship.  It is a two way communion.  He speaks to us through scripture, and we speak to him through prayer.

Some people focus far too much on spiritual experiences.  “I really felt the presence of God there” … “God just surrounded me with love”.  There’s nothing wrong with either one of these things, but by themselves they lack balance.  Talking and listening are both equally important.

For instance, I know way too many people who treat Christianity as an intellectual indevor.  The spend hours reading scripture, studying commentaries, preparing notes, absorbing quotes from Spurgeon and others.  They treat God as if He is barely anything more than a subject to be understood.  Their worship consists of stating his attributes back to him … prayer is a time to quote back to Him the scripture He wrote.

On the other hand, there are others who live for the experience.  They spend hours in prayer … they drive miles to experience what’s happening at a church hours away … some even claim to have special revelations from God Himself.

Neither one of these people, without a proper balance, is in the right.

God is not an academic subject.  He is not just to be studied as an art.  He is a living being worthy of worship, yet loving enough to want a relationship with me.  He isn’t just to be feared.  He is a friend, a Savior, and a hope for every one of us.

But God isn’t just your friend (although He very much is your friend).  He is also very interested in our appreciation of Himself.  He wants to talk back.  If we aren’t balancing the study of scripture with our prayer relationship, we’ve made a mistake and fallen out of balance.

The Christian walk is many times perverted by people with wonderful intentions.  They want to focus on  experience because it has been neglected for years by the church, but in the process they end up neglect the study of His Word.  The same is also true of those who are too focused on God as an academic study.  Too much emphasis is put on experience and the react in the same way the other folks did by letting their focus become unbalanced.

So let me encourage you like my friend did to me.  See God as a person. He is complex.  Don’t ever think you have him figured out completely.  He may just blow your mind some day! 

But in reality, the series has run its course, and I think it’s time for it to come to an end.

So I have a couple of questions for the reader community.

First question is this … do you have any suggestions for a few last Dangerous Questions?  Maybe you’ve heard one, or maybe you’ve asked one yourself before.  If you know a good question to ask that you might think would be useful for an upcoming post, let me know by sending me an email.

Second question is this … what should our next series be? I’m not sold on any topic yet, and I want it to be reasonably useful and popular, something interesting, something provocative, something that will get us all thinking.  The only thing I ask is that it not be about straight up politics.  If it has to do with faith and politics, or science and politics, I’m game for that.  Just no more straight up political posts.  Sorry

I’m putting it in your hands!  What will this blog look like in a month?  Let me know what you think!

I’ve tried and tried, but I can’t seem to find the segment on their website. If someone can help me locate this broadcast, I would be grateful

As a side note, I’ve been losing respect for the effectiveness of the entire Way of the Master organization for a while now. When I first saw their television show, I was impressed. But after seeing the banana video, then watching Ray and Kirk make a literal fool of themselves on the great atheist debate, I really just don’t much care for their stuff anymore. Then I heard them devote an entire segment of a recent show to contradicting themselves over and over again in their attempt to “correct” Steven Furtick.

Anyway, evidently a guy who is presumably not of the Christian faith submitted himself for an interview with Todd (this was not a phone call). I don’t remember his name, but I do remember not being terribly impressed with him. Nevertheless, the exchange went something like this.

The young man, in spite of the many efforts from Todd to get him to “just assume for a minute” that God is real, simply wouldn’t let it fly. This angered the host very much it seemed His frustration was evident in his speech and I think he let it get the better of him. Even though the guest wasn’t terribly articulate or informed, he at least knew enough to not let the host “assume” anything.

Essentially, the young man asked very pointed questions that Todd didn’t seem to be able to answer. The old “come on man! Of course Jesus existed!” to which the young man might respond “prove it”. Such a question ends up with a “No, no, no, I’m not going to go down that road with you…” kind of thing.

For a show and organization that claims to want to reach atheists, he didn’t exactly do much in the way of debate and reasoning.

At the end of the segment, he basically kicks the kid off the air. The young man never used profanity, never said anything mean or spiteful, and never said anything out of line. His crime, not “assuming” something. Todd and the WOTM crew like to use the “here are the 10 commandments. Have you kept them?” evangelism method. I personally think it’s a good method of evangelism, but it seemed like his entire goal for the conversation was to get to the 10 Commandments part. He never listened to the guy, he just wanted to preach at him.

That’s not apologetics. Worse than that was the last comments made in the interview. Todd, after essentially losing the argument, said something like “ok, I think we’re done here.” The young man, seeming a little surprised, said “What? No, I want to stay and talk more about this.” Todd responded “No, I don’t think that’s a good idea.”

WHAT!?

I guess the way to “handle” and atheist is to do your best to verbally “manhandle” him.

Sad.